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VassalForge - The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

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VassalForge - The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

Postby Brent Easton » June 27th, 2009, 5:44 am

Just had my first look at the VassalForge site. While I see lots of good stuff, I have serious concerns about certain aspects of the site.

The Good:
A good looking site with functional auto-translation. I particularly like the display for an individual module with the box graphic and the option to show additional information about the module.

The Bad:
The site attempts to link to the module and version history files stored on the vassalengine site, but since it is a completely independently edited site, this is doomed to failure. As the vassalengine site is updated by the individual authors, the file names change and the links break. The results are very unprofessional. It would be much better if you could mirror the VASSAL site, rather than trying to recreate it. Talk to Joel about this after August when the new VASSAL site goes live.

The Ugly:
Looking at the VF site, you would be led to believe that the VF people have been very busy, writing several hundred modules. Hang on, several of those are my modules! There is no attribution to the original authors, no link to the VassalEngine page and no way for users to get access to assistance. At best I consider this extremely rude and ask that you promptly remove my modules from the site until you remedy this. At worst, it is in violation of both the spirit and the law under which VASSAL modules are released. You seem to have just downloaded all the modules from the GMT site, plus whatever else you felt like and put all it up on your own site under your own banner. Has anything actually been developer by VF people? I'm sure it has, but it is impossible to tell.

B.
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Postby gaet » June 27th, 2009, 3:44 pm

First, i'm very confused.

This year, we made : Trader, Chabyrinthe, 22 pommes, Leader 1 and its extensions , Wolf...

Now, we work on 3 new modules according to different editors.

When we make a post on a new module, we post the creator of the module as for Red Star Rising, we indicated that it's Breat Easton that created it.

For the downloading page which exists since march 2008, this zone is just for a better exposition to the French community. It's not a secret, for each new feature of our website, we posted on this subject in this forum, since the day of the creation of our website.

We make a lot of job on this downloading zone. We spend a lot of time to create each box for each module with French text. We update all version. But i can understand you : i suspended this download page. I think it's a misunderstanding.

We don't want to recreate the Vassalengine website. Just for example, we don't make anything in secret : i asked to RK the right for adding the link to donnation page of VassalEngine (in bottom right of the website)... We don't have any Ads on our website and it will be the same in the future...
When we create a module, it's for free.

Don't think that we have mercantile or other bad ideas about this
. We created this website 15 months ago to develop the french community.

I contact Joël and You by MP about this.

Edit : for correcting my english
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Postby soft-bug » June 27th, 2009, 6:58 pm

Hi Gaet,

I just have seen this thread and after a glance at the remaining Game Modules under your Banner.

I ask you to remove or to update these Game Modules with credits to my work ("Réalisé par Soft-bug de www.VassalFactory.org") if you want to keep them in your list :

CannonBall Colony : I ask you to remove it from your list. I get exclusivity of my own work with Phil Harding agreement.

- Race For the Galaxy :

The current version is v5.0 not v2.0 and i ask credits for this 100 % realization Vassal Design .

I have done Youtube videos : the last explain in French how to handle the v3.0 and v4.0

Galactic Emperor :

100 % of my Vassal Design work too.. and i'm also currently making updates to it ...

For the others (Kazaam and De Cape & D'Epée, HUUUEE), i only ask for credits too on your Website. You have done a great "Marketing" work with Filosofia.

Indeed, you have choice to put only my credits with updated modules too or to remove modules, but for RFTG, i think it's NOT fair to let players think that v2.0 it's the lastest version.

In a way i'm sad to see all your own work getting lost ... It's not a joke just what i'm thinking..

Regards,

Grégory
www.VassalFactory.org
founder of The http://www.VassalFactory.org
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Postby gaet » June 27th, 2009, 8:43 pm

All my work is not getting lost. Just close links on modules. i keep links on 100% VassalForge creation or creation by another developper who wanted a link on Vassalforge.

And i don't agree with your point of view on modules. My work on modules was not only on marketing, it's a shame to read this. it's not fair to write this. Just for Kazaam, i made 95% of the module and all the work around. I can't accept to read this.

Your name is on the modules you participated on. I never changed this. i should have been more careful on the rights of the modules last year.

i don't think it's the right place for speaking about our disagreement on modules rights. i'm ok with speaking about it by MP if you want.
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VassalForge - The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

Postby didier69 » June 27th, 2009, 9:00 pm

Brent,

Brent Easton wrote:
The Good: A good looking site with functional auto-translation. I
particularly like the display for an individual module with the box
graphic and the option to show additional information about the
module.

As a french, I like to see news from vassal community in french :). When
I see news on VassalForge, I read it, and you can be sure that I go then
to the VassalEngine site. It's a good way for me to have informations
about vassal in french.

The Bad: The site attempts to link to the module and version history
files stored on the vassalengine site, but since it is a completely
independently edited site, this is doomed to failure. As the
vassalengine site is updated by the individual authors, the file
names change and the links break. The results are very
unprofessional. It would be much better if you could mirror the
VASSAL site, rather than trying to recreate it. Talk to Joel about
this after August when the new VASSAL site goes live.

So the geeklist on BoardGameGeek
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/23350 will not working when the
new site will be online ? Do you mean that all the links from BGG to the
vassal modules will be out of date ?

Regards.
--
Didier Bretin
http://bretin.net/
http://twitter.com/didier69

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Postby soft-bug » June 27th, 2009, 10:46 pm

gaet wrote:And i don't agree with your point of view on modules. My work on modules was not only on marketing, it's a shame to read this. it's not fair to write this. Just for Kazaam, i made 95% of the module and all the work around. I can't accept to read this.

Your name is on the modules you participated on. I never changed this. i should have been more careful on the rights of the modules last year.

i don't think it's the right place for speaking about our disagreement on modules rights. i'm ok with speaking about it by MP if you want.


Marketing was used with " " .. Then if you prefer i can replace with Promotion of Vassal... or demonstration about the utility of Vassal for a publisher.

Second, the name you have written is not good ... And as indicated i prefer in my previous message by called simply Soft-bug.

I don't see interest to speak with you by MP .. You have my personal phone number. It's faster.

Regards,

Grégory aka Soft-bug
founder of The http://www.VassalFactory.org
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VassalForge - The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

Postby Brent Easton » June 28th, 2009, 1:11 pm

On 27/06/2009 at 8:44 AM gaet wrote:

When we make a post on a new module, we post the creator of the module as
for Red Star Rising, we indicated that it's Breat Easton that created it.

This is a prime example of the problems with your approach. The new RsR module actually has nothing to do with me. It is a completely new module made by a different designer using the same artwork from my original module. The Vassal RsR page has links to both the new module and the final version of my old module.


And On 27/06/2009 at 11:00 PM Didier Bretin wrote:

As a french, I like to see news from vassal community in french :). When
I see news on VassalForge, I read it, and you can be sure that I go then
to the VassalEngine site. It's a good way for me to have informations
about vassal in french.
Don't think that we have mercantile or other bad ideas about this. We have
been created this website 15 months ago to developped the french community.


Please don't get me wrong - I have no problem at all with the VF site and what you are doing, except for the lack of attribution to the module authors and links back to the full information available on the VassalEngine site.

Once that is addressed, I have no real problem with you hosting a set of of often out-of-date and broken links to the modules on the VassalEngine site, much as you have done until recently.

However, if we put our heads together, I think we can come up with better solutions that will make VF a better site. It is in VASSAL's interests to have special interest (eg. language specific, genre specific) sites like yours, but with up-to-date information.

B.


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Re: VassalForge - The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

Postby gaet » June 28th, 2009, 3:41 pm

Brent Easton wrote:
Once that is addressed, I have no real problem with you hosting a set of of often out-of-date and broken links to the modules on the VassalEngine site, much as you have done until recently.

However, if we put our heads together, I think we can come up with better solutions that will make VF a better site. It is in VASSAL's interests to have special interest (eg. language specific, genre specific) sites like yours, but with up-to-date information.


i'm agree with this.
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Re: VassalForge - The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

Postby Shad » July 4th, 2009, 4:27 am

didier69 wrote:So the geeklist on BoardGameGeek
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/23350 will not working when the
new site will be online ? Do you mean that all the links from BGG to the
vassal modules will be out of date ?


That's my list, and that's one of the perils of hot-linking of any kind.

As the creator and sole admin of that list, I am responsible for keeping it up-to-date. When the new site goes up, yes, all of those module links (277 at last count!) will need to be updated, but that's only a few hours work - certainly doable.

I'm prepared, no worries. :D
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Postby gaet » July 7th, 2009, 9:10 pm

After discussion with Brent Easton, and with Brent Easton's agreement for his modules.

I rebuilt the download page and add a link to VassalEngine on each module box, i begin to create a specific page for each creators of module in order to show theirs creations. I try to contact all contributors for having his agreement.

It's a long stuff.

Thanks to Brent Easton for his help and his tests.

I hope that this new version of Downloading page will be accept by the most of contributors.
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