Create account / Log in

ATF vs VASSAL

Suggestions for additional features for the module editor and Vassal engine.

Moderators: uckelman, Tim M

ATF vs VASSAL

Postby cgmclellan » August 11th, 2010, 9:31 pm

A number of gamers continue to use Hank (Roll Tide) Burkhalter's "Above the Fields" The Russian Campaign PBeM utility in preference to VASSAL (ADC2 or Cyberboard) because of the feature which none to the other utilities seems capable of duplicating. ATF plots only the beginning and end of turn (or impulse) positions of units.

This allows a feature which returns a unit from its end of turn (before combat) position to its beginning position out of sequence. ADC2 (and perhaps others) can only undo one step or unit at a time. So, for example, if a player has 7 units -- A, B, C... -- and has moved all seven and then rethinks the move and wants to redo A's move, for ADC2 the player has to undo G, then F, then E, etc. until A is reached. With ATF, the player only needs to undo A leaving the other 6 in their final positions.

Adding the feature to VASSAL would also require turning off the log file entirely for the game or at least erasing the changed move on the log file so as to reduce the confusion. It might also require undoing the steps made between the redone unit's initial and final position.

Obviously, there are situations when the redo cannot be done like over a die roll for combat or other die roll situation.

Any questions?
cgmclellan
 
Posts: 55
Joined: July 20th, 2010, 10:26 pm

Re: ATF vs VASSAL

Postby cgmclellan » September 30th, 2010, 7:22 am

Any consideration given to doing anything about this request?

No one seem to have any question about what I am asking for, and no one seems to have read or considered doing anything about the request.

I think it is a shame that today's systems cannot even come close to matching those of 15 years ago.

Is it just too difficult to duplicate what was done 15 years ago?
cgmclellan
 
Posts: 55
Joined: July 20th, 2010, 10:26 pm

Re: [messages] [Feature Requests] Re: ATF vs VASSAL

Postby uckelman » September 30th, 2010, 9:25 am

Thus spake cgmclellan:
> Any consideration given to doing anything about this request?
>
> No one seem to have any question about what I am asking for, and no one
> seems to have read or considered doing anything about the request.
>
> I think it is a shame that today's systems cannot even come close to
> matching those of 15 years ago.
>
> Is it just too difficult to duplicate what was done 15 years ago?
>

I believe I've mentioned before that this is planned as part of the
"Logging Improvements" project:

http://www.vassalengine.org/wiki/Roadmap#3.3

It isn't a matter of difficulty. Rather it's that we would have to
devote development time to it, but there are many, many things in
the queue ahead of it.

If you're independently wealthy, you could hire me to work on VASSAL
full-time (that is, in addition to the nights and weekends I already
put into it). Short of that, if you want to expedite development of
this feature, you can (1) help us increase the amount of developer
hours we have, by either finding us more developers or contributing
code yourself, (2) help us spend fewer developer hours on non-
development tasks by, e.g., assisting with documentation or answering
questions on the forum, or (3) help us spend the developer hours we
have more efficiently (but I don't have any suggestions for how to do
this third thing).

--
J.
User avatar
uckelman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 8874
Joined: December 10th, 2007, 9:48 am
Location: Durham, England

Re: [messages] [Feature Requests] ATF vs VASSAL

Postby mkiefte » September 30th, 2010, 9:51 am

I don't actually use the Undo function a lot. It's incredibly unreliable.

What I would have done in this case is simply have Movement Trail traits on
the markers and just simply move it back to where it was by dragging it --
not using Undo at all.

But I agree that, in general we should have a menu entry like "return to
original position" which simply does this for you.

- M.

On 11 August 2010 18:31, cgmclellan wrote:

> A number of gamers continue to use Hank (Roll Tide) Burkhalter's "Above
> the Fields" The Russian Campaign PBeM utility in preference to VASSAL
> (ADC2 or Cyberboard) because of the feature which none to the other
> utilities seems capable of duplicating. ATF plots only the beginning and
> end of turn (or impulse) positions of units.
>
> This allows a feature which returns a unit from its end of turn (before
> combat) position to its beginning position out of sequence. ADC2 (and
> perhaps others) can only undo one step or unit at a time. So, for
> example, if a player has 7 units -- A, B, C... -- and has moved all
> seven and then rethinks the move and wants to redo A's move, for ADC2
> the player has to undo G, then F, then E, etc. until A is reached. With
> ATF, the player only needs to undo A leaving the other 6 in their final
> positions.
>
> Adding the feature to VASSAL would also require turning off the log file
> entirely for the game or at least erasing the changed move on the log
> file so as to reduce the confusion. It might also require undoing the
> steps made between the redone unit's initial and final position.
> Obviously, there are situations when the redo cannot be done like over a
> die roll for combat or other die roll situation.
>
> Any questions?
>
>

I don't actually use the Undo function a lot.� It's incredibly unreliable.

What I would have done in this case is simply have Movement Trail traits on the markers and just simply move it back to where it was by dragging it -- not using Undo at all.


But I agree that, in general we should have a menu entry like "return to original position" which simply does this for you.

- M.

On 11 August 2010 18:31, cgmclellan <cgmclellan2000@knology.net> wrote:

A number of gamers continue to use Hank (Roll Tide) Burkhalter's "Above

the Fields" The Russian Campaign PBeM utility in preference to VASSAL

(ADC2 or Cyberboard) because of the feature which none to the other

utilities seems capable of duplicating. ATF plots only the beginning and

end of turn (or impulse) positions of units.



This allows a feature which returns a unit from its end of turn (before

combat) position to its beginning position out of sequence. ADC2 (and

perhaps others) can only undo one step or unit at a time. So, for

example, if a player has 7 units -- A, B, C... -- and has moved all

seven and then rethinks the move and wants to redo A's move, for ADC2

the player has to undo G, then F, then E, etc. until A is reached. With

ATF, the player only needs to undo A leaving the other 6 in their final

positions.



Adding the feature to VASSAL would also require turning off the log file

entirely for the game or at least erasing the changed move on the log

file so as to reduce the confusion. It might also require undoing the

steps made between the redone unit's initial and final position.

Obviously, there are situations when the redo cannot be done like over a

die roll for combat or other die roll situation.



Any questions?


User avatar
mkiefte
 
Posts: 1144
Joined: January 5th, 2008, 1:29 am
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

Re: ATF vs VASSAL

Postby cgmclellan » October 2nd, 2010, 3:32 am

...in general we should have a menu entry like "return to
original position" which simply does this for you.

Yes! That's what several people have asked for. Maybe not here, but whenever The Russian Campaign gets played Hank Burkhalter's ATF (Above The Fields) program gets discussed. It's always, "Why can't any of the newer game playing utilities do the same thing?"
cgmclellan
 
Posts: 55
Joined: July 20th, 2010, 10:26 pm


Return to Feature Requests

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests