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Mac laptop users, please help us test

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Mac laptop users, please help us test

Postby uckelman » July 8th, 2020, 8:18 pm

We've had a bug report that since 3.3.0, right-clicking using Ctrl-Click and selecting from context menus using the Command key no longer work when using a touchpad on a Mac laptop:

viewtopic.php?p=61411#p61411

I think I have a partial solution, and I like to fix this bug for 3.3.2, but I have no way of testing it. If you have a Mac laptop, please try this build:

http://www.vassalengine.org/~uckelman/t ... macosx.dmg

Try doing right-clicks using Ctrl-click and try selecting from context menus using Cmd. Do either of those work as expected with this build?
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Re: Mac laptop users, please help us test

Postby Joelist » July 10th, 2020, 11:40 pm

Downloading now.
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Re: Mac laptop users, please help us test

Postby Joelist » July 10th, 2020, 11:48 pm

I can bring up the context menu using CTRL click but the selection has no effect. If I do the same thing totally using the touchpad (click with two fingers), everything works properly.
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Re: Mac laptop users, please help us test

Postby uckelman » July 10th, 2020, 11:53 pm

Thus spake Joelist via messages:
> I can bring up the context menu using CTRL click but the selection has
> no effect. If I do the same thing totally using the touchpad (click with
> two fingers), everything works properly.

That's what I expected, as that build doesn't have any changes regarding
selection in it.

How are you trying to do the selection of the menu item? (Please describe
the actions, assume I don't know anything about Macs.)

--
J.
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Re: Mac laptop users, please help us test

Postby uckelman » July 13th, 2020, 8:57 pm

If you're having this problem, please try this build and let us know if it restores the behavior from 3.2.17 for you:

http://www.vassalengine.org/~uckelman/t ... macosx.dmg
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Re: Mac laptop users, please help us test

Postby Joelist » July 14th, 2020, 3:44 am

I tried two methods.

1) Click on touchpad with two fingers together - this works properly.

2) CTRL + Click on touchpad. This is where the issue still persists.
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Re: Mac laptop users, please help us test

Postby uckelman » July 14th, 2020, 11:20 am

Thus spake Joelist via messages:
> I tried two methods.
>
> 1) Click on touchpad with two fingers together - this works properly.
>
> 2) CTRL + Click on touchpad. This is where the issue still persists.

Can you be more specific?

* What are you trying to do?
* What do you expect Ctrl+Click on the touchpad to do?
* What does it actually do?

--
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Re: Mac laptop users, please help us test

Postby Cattlesquat » July 14th, 2020, 3:35 pm

I'm also interested in discussing the following with Mac users. It appears that VASSAL up to 3.2.17 has run as follows on the Mac:
(1) Command + Left Click on e.g. a piece brought up context menu
(2) Control + Left Click did NOT bring up a context menu
(3) You could also bring up context menus by right+clicking (if have a two-button mouse, or if you have your touchpad set up for clicking-with-two-fingers is a right click or clicking-in-right-corner is a right click or whatever)
(4) Meanwhile the shortcut keys for doing things on a piece tend to be activated by CONTROL + C (Rather than, say, COMMAND + C)

Now my impression, both from my moderate casual use of Macs and all my reading on the subject is that this "isn't really how it ought to work" from a Mac interface point of view. It seems to be the case that the "proper" Mac interface would be:
(1) CONTROL + Left Click brings up a context menu.
(2) Command + Left Click, by contrast, should toggle a piece in and out of the current selection
(3) COMMAND + C (and other letters and combos) should typically activate the shortcuts on pieces, CONTROL should not.

Could some veteran Mac users please confirm that this is "how Mac interfaces are supposed to work"?

Obviously we'd want some kind of "compatibility mode" where if you want to keep the 3-2-17 layout you can keep it now that VASSAL has trained it to you for a decade, but it seems like we should offer and default to a "proper, comfortable Mac interface".

Please correct anything I'm wrong about.

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Re: Mac laptop users, please help us test

Postby JoelCFC25 » July 14th, 2020, 7:50 pm

MacOS 10.15.5, non-Retina display. Java 8u251 (obviously only pertinent to 3.2.17 usage)

VASSAL 3.2.17
Select a piece.

Command + left click = brings up right-click context menu
Control + left click = deselects piece

You are correct that this is the reverse of what I would consider standard MacOS behavior. Compare to using Finder to browse the file system and selecting a bunch of files--here, Control + left click acts as a right-click and brings up a context menu of things you can do to the group selection, while Command + left click removes the clicked item from the selection.

VASSAL 3.3.1-313-g9ea7249f09a7
Select a piece.

Command + left click = deselects piece
Control + left click = brings up right-click context menu

Moreover, perhaps unlike the user earlier, once I've brought up the context menu with Control + left click, choosing an option from that context menu behaves as expected (e.g., flips the piece over).
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Re: Mac laptop users, please help us test

Postby Joelist » July 14th, 2020, 8:32 pm

uckelman wrote:Thus spake Joelist via messages:
> I tried two methods.
>
> 1) Click on touchpad with two fingers together - this works properly.
>
> 2) CTRL + Click on touchpad. This is where the issue still persists.

Can you be more specific?

* What are you trying to do?
* What do you expect Ctrl+Click on the touchpad to do?
* What does it actually do?

--
J.


I was testing using your test version exactly as you asked.

CTRL + click did bring up the context menu but the selections did not work.

Two finger click brings up the context menu and selections work.

MacBook Pro 16

v10.15.6


To be honest I never used keystrokes in any version of VASSAL to bring up the context menu - I always used two finger click except way back when Macs used touchpad with the buttons on top - then it was right button click.
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Re: Mac laptop users, please help us test

Postby Cattlesquat » July 14th, 2020, 8:55 pm

Hi Joelist,

When I use the version linked at the TOP of this thread with my Macbook Pro, the Ctrl+Leftclick context menus fail (the menu comes up but I can't select the items, as you describe).

But when I use the version linked LATER in this thread (the one in the fifth message -- http://www.vassalengine.org/~uckelman/t ... macosx.dmg), THEN the Context Menus work with Ctrl+Leftclick.

Could you confirm that you were experiencing this behavior with the SECOND test version, not just the first?

Sorry to be repetitious if you were, I just want to confirm because I'm currently testing on a Macbook Pro laptop and not having problems (with the second version)

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Re: Mac laptop users, please help us test

Postby knucklesmagoo » July 15th, 2020, 12:01 pm

Joelist wrote:I tried two methods.

1) Click on touchpad with two fingers together - this works properly.

2) CTRL + Click on touchpad. This is where the issue still persists.


Hello all.

I experience the same: The CTRL key brings up the menu, but then the menu does perform selected item. The Secondary click option, in the Mac Trackpad setting, does work.

Best,
Greg
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Re: Mac laptop users, please help us test

Postby knucklesmagoo » July 15th, 2020, 12:45 pm

Cattlesquat wrote:I'm also interested in discussing the following with Mac users. It appears that VASSAL up to 3.2.17 has run as follows on the Mac:
(1) Command + Left Click on e.g. a piece brought up context menu
(2) Control + Left Click did NOT bring up a context menu
(3) You could also bring up context menus by right+clicking (if have a two-button mouse, or if you have your touchpad set up for clicking-with-two-fingers is a right click or clicking-in-right-corner is a right click or whatever)
(4) Meanwhile the shortcut keys for doing things on a piece tend to be activated by CONTROL + C (Rather than, say, COMMAND + C)

Now my impression, both from my moderate casual use of Macs and all my reading on the subject is that this "isn't really how it ought to work" from a Mac interface point of view. It seems to be the case that the "proper" Mac interface would be:
(1) CONTROL + Left Click brings up a context menu.
(2) Command + Left Click, by contrast, should toggle a piece in and out of the current selection
(3) COMMAND + C (and other letters and combos) should typically activate the shortcuts on pieces, CONTROL should not.

Could some veteran Mac users please confirm that this is "how Mac interfaces are supposed to work"?

Obviously we'd want some kind of "compatibility mode" where if you want to keep the 3-2-17 layout you can keep it now that VASSAL has trained it to you for a decade, but it seems like we should offer and default to a "proper, comfortable Mac interface".

Please correct anything I'm wrong about.

Brian


Hello Brian. Thanks for trying to sort this out.

The most relevant MacBook Pro specs are: 10.13.6 on an old, don't laugh, mid 2010, 2.53 GHz i5.

First, answering your questions:
1) CTRL + left click brings up the menu, but does not perform the selected action
2) CMD + left click allows you to select (similar to just left clicking) but doesn't do anything other than that
3) As far as CTRL + keystrokes, I hardly ever use these - as there doesn't seem to be many offered? But, if you'd like me to have a look and try to see if some will work, I can. As a suggestion, I would love there to be more added to the Mac version - if possible.

Using a mouse, the right-click works fine in the build that you've supplied above.

Using CTRL + plus trackpad click brings up with menu, but then the selected action does not work.

Using double tap on the trackpad, and then scrolling down to the action that I'd like to perform, does work.

I almost always use the trackpad on my laptop, and noticed the menu issue, as well as the "right-click" change, with 3.3.1.

The latest build moved the right-click option from CMD to the CTRL key. I'm fine with either key plus the trackpad- as the right-click option can change between programs that I normally work with.

I hope this helps?

Thanks again.
Greg
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Re: Mac laptop users, please help us test

Postby Cattlesquat » July 15th, 2020, 2:12 pm

Hi Greg,

Thanks very much - can I confirm though, did you use:
(A) the version linked at the very top of this thread?
(B) OR, the version linked in about the fifth message of this thread (http://www.vassalengine.org/~uckelman/t ... macosx.dmg)

Because the first one, when I run it on my Macbook Pro, produces the problem you describe (Ctrl+Leftclick produces a context menu but then selecting the option does not "work")

But the second one produces a context menu on Ctrl+Leftclick and selecting the option "works" for me, and this was also reported by one other Macbook Pro user.

So I can I just have you check which of the two builds (both alas linked in this thread) you were testing with? If you happen to have only tested with the first build (or a test build from some other thread), could I please trouble you to try the second build and report back with your results?

Thanks much!

Brian
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Re: Mac laptop users, please help us test

Postby imikem » July 21st, 2020, 12:53 am

I'm an incorrigible Mac user, so thought I'd pass along what I'm seeing here.

MacBook Pro (16-inch, 2019)
2.3 GHz 8-Core Intel Core i9
16 GB 2667 MHz DDR4
AMD Radeon Pro 5500M 4 GB
Intel UHD Graphics 630 1536 MB
macOS 10.15.6

Downloaded and ran version on below image:
VASSAL-3.3.1-186-g3e067563-ctrl-click.macosx.dmg

Trackpad gesture right click (listed as "Secondary click" in Trackpad controls) displays and executes commands as expected.
Control-click as previously noted displays the context menu, but selections do not have any effect.

VASSAL 3.3.2 displayed and executed the contextual menu items properly with both methods.
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