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Link to other die-rolling engines

Suggestions for additional features for the module editor and Vassal engine.

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Link to other die-rolling engines

Postby bedouin » April 26th, 2018, 8:41 am

A lot of people hate the Vassal engine die roller. I am one of them.

This has been discussed at length in various Facebook discussions. My solution during live games, is to use Hamete. My opponent can watch die rolls although runs of bad luck still, of course, happen.

I would love to see a link to Hamete or Random.org as an option for die rolls. Is this possible? Arguably, both engines are better than Vassal.
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Re: Link to other die-rolling engines

Postby sagcats » June 15th, 2021, 4:47 pm

Personally, I have no problem with the vassal die roller. But I have played with and am playing with
people who insist on a 3rd party die roller. And that adds additional bookeeping overhead I don't really like.
It would be much, much easier if the vassal engine would support use of a 3rd party die roller; there are plenty
of them around ...
“Personally, I’m always ready to learn, although I do not always like being taught.” - Winston Churchill
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Re: Link to other die-rolling engines

Postby Brent Easton » June 16th, 2021, 12:02 am

Is this possible? Arguably, both engines are better than Vassal.


In what way? What are the arguments? Hamete provides no information whatsoever on the mechanism it uses for generating random numbers, how can you make any comparison?

Interestingly, the RNG used by Vassal has been completely replaced 3 times over the years with unrelated RNG's and each time, the 'detractors' have raised EXACTLY the same arguments as to what is 'wrong' with Vassal's RNG.

The main issue is that most Game Players don't actually want, or understand random numbers. Rolling the same numbers multiple times in a row ('Streakiness') is perfectly valid in any random sequence. Since this tends to have a significant effect on game play in many games, players are more likely to remember this than all the all the times when the dice weren't 'streaky'. Random numbers are only random when looked at statistically in very large numbers, short extracts (e.g. a game's worth of rolls) from a random number sequence can look completely un-random.

What most Game Players actually want is some sort of short-term balancing of roll probabilities across the length of a game, but random numbers do not give you this.

We have had integration with external dice rollers before (the base code is still in Vassal), but those currently available that I am aware of do not provide an external API to allow us to interact with them effectively, or do not provide the necessarily services like email verification.

I will happily add the 'Internet Die Roller' component back in to Vassal id you can find a suitable candidate.
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Re: Link to other die-rolling engines

Postby sagcats » June 16th, 2021, 2:24 am

what constitutes a "suitable candidate" ?
“Personally, I’m always ready to learn, although I do not always like being taught.” - Winston Churchill
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Re: Link to other die-rolling engines

Postby uckelman » June 16th, 2021, 11:50 am

* There should be a REST API over which we may request rolls.
* There should be some means of external verification of the rolls; without that, a third-party roller is pointless.
* There should be documentation for how the rolls are produced.
* The roller needs to be able to handle a significant volume of rolls.
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Re: Link to other die-rolling engines

Postby sagcats » June 21st, 2021, 5:56 am

uckelman wrote:* There should be a REST API over which we may request rolls.
* There should be some means of external verification of the rolls; without that, a third-party roller is pointless.
* There should be documentation for how the rolls are produced.
* The roller needs to be able to handle a significant volume of rolls.


So are there any existing 3rd party die rollers that satisfy these conditions? If not, who is closest ?
If not, are the maintainers of any existing 3rd party rollers approachable about this ?
“Personally, I’m always ready to learn, although I do not always like being taught.” - Winston Churchill
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